So before you even get to the kind of the technical skills. Mario Gerard: So coming back, like how do you evaluate the technical aspects of a TPM since, as you were saying, right, you were a bar raiser at Amazon, whatвЂ™s your yardstick of how do you measure that.ДЄrjun Subramaniam : So I want to kind of maybe describe this yardstick with, letвЂ™s look at some kind of from building block skills. So itвЂ™s not a very common path forward, but itвЂ™s nice to see that you did that and youвЂ™ve kind of enjoyed that journey. So TPMS, generally a lot of them transition to engineering managers at some point, if they want of go down that route, but move to product is a little, I seen little fewer people actually moving from TPM to product. And I feel like itвЂ™s been a positive thing for me. ThereвЂ™s not as much of a blazed trail I hesitated from going down that road. I think that in some respects, like, because most TPMS donвЂ™t do that.

I mean, following your instincts where that takes you. Like, you know, we should give it a chance. If people are like, hesitant about following their instincts, I almost always, you know, think, you know, you canвЂ™t go wrong with it. Like, you know, we have to go figure this out for ourselves, but itвЂ™s been a really positive thing for me. But, you know, we all go walk the path of discovery, right. It was in hindsight, I actually were wish IвЂ™d done it sooner. And so I really enjoyed that.В So thatвЂ™s how I took my career. And so I also decided, you know, just going back to the original point, I really wanted ownership of the frontier space, like owning the actual, you know, part definition, the business strategy being able to go build that. And that, that was like my choice of based on my fists, on how I wanted to kind of go. I just loved working with the non-technical stakeholders as much as I enjoyed working with the technical stakeholders.ДЄnd then as I looked at like all the cool stuff happening around AWS, and thereвЂ™s this entire type of product management, that was a, a technical product management role, like, you know, where you could really grow up in. I really loved the business side of building.В I enjoyed understanding the business dynamic. Mario Gerard : What made you kind of move from the TPM role to the product role?ДЄrjun Subramaniam: So a lot of this was just my own process of self-discovery.

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